Episode Transcript
Hi! Welcome to another episode of the Revitalized My Church podcast. This is episode number five. I'm Bart Blair, and I am joined by the Executive Director of Assist Church Expansion, Nathan Bryant. Nathan, how are you today?
Doing great. Bart, great to be with you.
Okay, that's semi truthful. Um, because we were just having a conversation about the fact that you had a late flight last night and you might be a little tired today. Uh, but that's okay. We'll. Great. All things considered. You're doing great. Yes, yes, yes.
God is good despite me.
God is good despite you. Yes. That's true. Uh, that is very true. I've known you for a long time, and God is good despite you. So. Hey, uh, so, uh, really great conversation, uh, that we're going to have today. I'm really excited about this aspect of church revitalization that we're going to be talking about today. Um, if you happen to be new to our podcast, uh, Nathan and I, uh, have been, uh, having conversations about what we call our five big rocks of revitalization. And today we're going to be talking about the third big rock. So just as a quick recap of what our five big rocks of revitalization are, uh, the first one is unity. Uh, we want to see a church unified around the prospect of change. We don't believe that you can revitalize a church, refresh a church, renew a church if there isn't unity amongst the leaders and the congregation as a whole about the direction that you're moving as a church. Uh, the second big rock is leadership. Um, whether the church is in a season where it's trying to identify a new pastor, uh, to lead them forward, uh, or the church already has a pastor in place, uh, leadership. That leader, that pastor not just being a great shepherd and a great preacher, but actually being able to move the church from where it is to where it needs to be is a critical attribute.
The third big rock, which we're going to unpack today is team uh. The fourth big rock is a plan, a strategic plan for, uh, for present and future ministry, uh, so that the church can accomplish all that God has called it to accomplish. And finally, the fifth big rock is a launch or a relaunch, and we're going to be recording conversations on those big rocks, uh, in the days to come. But today we're going to have a conversation about team and the role that a team plays in revitalizing a church. So, Nathan, when we first started working with churches to help them find a new and fruitful future, and we were sort of batting around, you know, some of the principles and the things that we thought were going to be really important. This is one that you said, this is really critical. A team is really, really critical. Why don't you share a little bit about why you feel like a team is such an important component to a church revitalization?
Well, not just for church revitalization, any church ministry, church work at all. For the years that we were planting churches, we were looking for, you know, Superman to go plant the church. And we focused our energy all around that actual key leader, which is really still super important. And we discussed that last time. But but the key leader can't do everything. He doesn't have every gift. And this is a big problem. And so what would happen oftentimes is, is the church would be shaped and only shaped by that key leader's key gifting. And so if he's evangelistic, everything is evangelistic oriented. If he's if he's teaching, everything is just teaching focused. If he's shepherding, everything is shepherding oriented. Right. But the truth is, is that we need all of it. We need this roundedness in terms of how we operate and function, you know, as a body. You know, and it's the Holy Spirit that gives the gifts to the body. And there's diversity of gifts that are given to the body. That's one gift. And oftentimes we focus on one gift and we prefer one gift. Uh, but we need all the gifts to, to be in play and to be at work as, as Paul talked about the body. Uh, you know, in First Corinthians that we need all these different pieces. And there were, you know, there are specific gifts that definitely need to be in play. And we'll talk about these gifts that we've identified that we think are most key to having a well rounded, uh, way to do ministry, but also to exercise and function together. And it's very, very rare that anybody has more than 2 or 3 of these gifts at any kind of strength, and they're not likely going to have all of the gifts.
Right. And, you know, we're not all Jesus. So so we are who we are. And that's the other thing I think that's important in talking about team is that, you know, just because you don't have a certain gift doesn't mean that you're a less valuable. You actually are significantly valuable for the gift that you do have. Knowing what you have as a gift and what you bring to the team is really, really critical. And and for each of the team members to see and validate each other's gifting as they cooperate and work together. But but one of the big mistakes we made when we were planting churches is we were so focused on that key leader in all the gifts that they needed to have one. We could never find a person who had all the gifts we were looking for, but two they were out trying to do it by themselves. And I don't believe that God has ever intended for us to do ministry by ourselves. Even when you look at the the New Testament, when Jesus was sending the disciples out, he never sent them out by themselves. He sent them a team. And if you follow Paul's ministry, we focus on Paul as this amazing key leader. But he never went anywhere without a team. He he had a whole team of people that were with him in every endeavor that he did. Uh, and he needed it and he wanted it, and he and he cherished it. And so a team is so critical for successful ministry.
Yeah. You know, when I think about the team, I'm just I naturally think about, uh, the first church that you are a part of planting, uh, in, in the Toronto area. Um, I joined the church as a member a couple of years later, eventually joined the staff, uh, as as one of the pastors on the team. And, you know, I don't know, it wasn't intentional. You guys didn't come together to plant this church, you know, thinking, oh, we need to have a team. And this multiplicity of gifts, it's really just the way that God orchestrated the situation, the circumstances. But I look back on that and it was you and your brother Philip and our friend, good friend Bartley Sawatzky and the three of you planting together. And I don't know that we would have recognized it in the season and in the moment, but certainly, you know, 25 years into the future, we look back and go a big part of the success in that church. Getting off to the strong start that it did was the fact that the three of you had such unique gifting and complementary gifting. Yes. Um, and, and really that some of the weakness came in the church when, you know, when Philip went to plant another church and he left that team and we didn't maybe readily recognize that we needed to backfill that role on the team.
And, you know, so I as, I, as I'm working with churches and I'm helping, trying to help the leaders, um, uh, engage with people in their church that can invite them into the process of helping to revitalize the church as vision team members or strategic team members or whatever you want to call them. We typically call them, call it the vision team. Um, we we it really it really stands out to me as how important that is. And of course, when we look at the role of the pastor as being to, you know, equip the saints for the work of ministry, there is an aspect of that. I think that we naturally inclined to think about it as a sending role, that my role is to equip people for the purpose of sending them. And there is a component of that. Every church should be raising, up, equipping and sending people, but sometimes it's raising up people to invite them into a closer circle so they can help you accomplish what God has called you to accomplish. Because yeah, as an individual, you are not equipped to do everything.
Especially as the ministry grows, you need more and more leaders and more and more different gifts in play and strongly working together cooperatively to accomplish the mission that God's given you to do. Absolutely.
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's, you know, one of the easiest things to do when we want to talk about, you know, a scriptural or a biblical foundation for building this team. And as as we describe how the team works together, I think that this will, will, will make more sense. But, you know, there's obviously there's several proverbs that speak about the wisdom that comes with many, uh, advisors. You know, Proverbs 1114 says for lack of guidance, a nation falls, but victory is won through many advisors. Proverbs 1522 says plans fail for lack of counsel, but with many advisers they succeed. Advisors are important, but more important than advisors are the right advisors listening to the right people during that right season. And so let's jump in a little bit. To talk about some of the characteristics and the qualities that we need to have on that strategic planning team or that vision team as we're working to renew the church.
Yeah, I think there's, there's, there's these key. We've identified six key roles or gifts that we want to see exercise. And like I said, we oftentimes, you know, you might have someone who has strength in 2 or 3 of them, but you really only want them functioning with strength and one if possible, sometimes two, because you know, you're you're limited, perhaps, on what you have available of people to work with. But the first the first gift is we're looking for is that visionary leader. Like we want to see that visionary space. And sometimes the leader isn't actually that strong, visionary wise. He's still a leader in organizing and moving the people, but he's not strong at developing, creating vision, communicating caring vision. You can't develop it very well. And so that vision is really, really important. You're not going to unify a group of people towards a goal or aim and lift them with inspiration. Without vision, impossible, they're going to happen. So we need visionary engagement. We need that visionary gift to be part of that team. Otherwise you're never going to move this ball forward. That's a really, really critical thing. And it's what's interesting is, is, is that second gift that we have on this team is called the administrator. And I'm not just looking for somebody who's like, uh, detail administration that can make sure all the I's are dotted and the T's are crossed and all that.
You need that for sure. But I'm more talking about is an organizational administrator, somebody who, when they hear a vision, then can break it down to actual meaningful task and, and also break down the structure into a meaningful executable plan to be delivered on. That's the kind of administrator I'm talking about, kind of a mid to high level management administrator who can understand the goals we're trying to accomplish and break the team down to actually get it done. And these are very rare person in the church. And so and often overlooked. Everybody's looking for the guy who can communicate or the guy who can do evangelism, or the guy who can teach, or the guy who can shepherd. But this administrative gifting is really, really, really important because without a strong plan to actually execute on in a way to get it done, that's tangible and realistic, instead of buying the sky, the big vision that the leader has, uh, you're really, really going to be challenged to get the job done. And it's tricky because the person who's typically administrative in nature is more directive, typically in how they're functioning, because things are more practical and tactical. Um, and the visionary person is more pie in the sky. And, and so you really need to see that you need both of these working together to actually get this, get this done.
Yeah. You know, our experience has been that sometimes the most talented and gifted visionary leaders are the people who have the most challenge getting their vision off the ground. And it's because they don't have that person on their team, that right hand man or woman who has that administrative gifting and who has also been empowered to bring accountability. The administrator is not just a person that writes things down, puts them on the calendar and organizes the details of it. But they've also got to be empowered to bring some accountability to say, hey, we said that these were the deadlines that we were going to hit. We said that these were the things that we were going to accomplish in this time window. Um, let's let's get at it. Let's let like, let's actually do what we said we were going to do, not just continue to dream and pray about it. We want to dream about it. We need to pray about it. But at some point in time, we've got to do something about it, and that we got.
To actually put some feet to this thing. Yeah.
And so the administrator is, is it's not like the secretary of the team. It's a person who's actually empowered to bring some accountability and has some responsibility to make sure that the plan that is worked on is actually put into action.
Yeah, I would say too, with that whole aspect is that as you build the team, people need to be validated and celebrated in the strength that they're bringing to the team and respected for that particular strength that they're bringing. So, you know, the visionary person, we're not looking to the visionary to actually deliver necessarily on the structure because they may not be able to do that. Uh, but we are looking to the administrator to do that, to, to give us what. So how do we organize ourselves to get this, this vision done? How do we how do we break these tasks down to reasonable goals to actually achieve it? That's what the administrator is doing, as well as making sure that we do them and follow up with them, but also creating the structure and the pathway to do it. So when the visionary leader, sometimes he can be in such a big hurry to move the ball forward, not recognizing all the detail that needs to actually be executed on to to realize the end goal. And so he has to really have confidence and trust and respect for that administrator to to help him bring his piece to the table. And the administrator on the same side has to have that respect for the vision, either that they believe in the vision that's being communicated and they're behind that leader and they're helping. They're working together with their gifts to to make it happen together.
Yeah, absolutely. So we. Need a visionary leader or a visionary on the team. We need administrator. And the next role that we often talk about is that of the shepherd. Um, why don't you expand on that a little bit?
Yeah, this is super important because, you know, it's it's interesting, you know, um, with certain giftings, if you get a high visionary person and they're super visionary or even if they're super administrative or they're together, those two gifts, we're going to run people ragged because we've got a great vision and a great plan, and we're going to execute it and we're going to push, push, push, push, push. Well, the people are dying trying to get it all done because they have lives to live. They have children to care for. They have jobs that they're doing. They have their own families to manage. They have their they have everything else going on in their life. And and yes, the dream and vision you're trying to do is awesome. And it's for the kingdom of Jesus. But they they need to survive while we're doing it and thrive actually in the process. So having the shepherd is so important. The challenge is on the opposite side. If you have the shepherd and he's the key leader, it tends to be that, you know, they spend all their time around the circle singing Kumbaya, and everybody's feeling loved and warm and all that. But there's no action taking place. There's never actually anything taking, making any action going forward. So but you need somebody who's going to care for and think about the needs of the people that cares, and the worries and the stress and the balance that people need to actually execute on this, so that the shepherd isn't the only voice that's speaking, but he needs to speak into the vision and the plan so that the people are cared for. The pace is at the right tempo to that. You're not burning people out and killing people in the process, and people are being loved and cared for and the vision and the plan that you're making.
Yeah. If I'd known that you were going to be confessing my sins by, you know, sharing that that definition, I my weakness as a leader and as a pastor, I know is my shepherding gift or lack thereof. Now, I would say as a leader, well, I'm a strong visionary leader, and I have strong administrative gifts and I can get stuff done. What my experience was always that like attracts like. So the church that I was pastoring, there were a lot of people in the church that were like me, and I didn't necessarily burn people out. But what would happen is as people were exploring our community, we're checking out our church who were trying to decide if our church was the right fit for them. There wasn't a lot of warm fuzzy.
There was feeling the love.
Yeah, they were like, if if you came into our church and you were a person who wanted to get stuff done for God's kingdom, it was the right church for you. But if you were a person that came with some wounds and some challenges and you needed some time to sort of be encouraged and nursed back into a state of health, it wasn't apparent. While we definitely wanted to help people through those seasons, it wasn't readily apparent because we didn't have a naturally gifted shepherd on our team. Even the elders that served alongside me were more visionary, administrator gatherer type of people. Right? And so we didn't have a strong shepherding culture in our community. And I think you're right, Nathan, because as a church does begin to reach new people, reach people who are far from God, reach people who are looking to be a part of a church that's that's healthy and vibrant and growing. They need to know that there's someone there who will actually care for them, someone who's really got their best interest at heart and will, you know, I, I always say it's the person who, as a visionary leader, I'm having a conversation with someone and I'm always kind of looking over their shoulder to see what's going on behind them. The shepherd is always looking them straight in the eye and isn't and isn't distracted by all the other stuff that's going on.
And I would say not only just that person in play to give the care and the the love that needs to be given to the individual. Absolutely. But also is speaking into the vision that's being developed so that that care and love and support for the individual, the concern for the individual is being considered in the plans that are being made. This is really a big idea, right? Because those those of us visionary, us visionaries, you know, we're going after the goal so hard that we we can forget the detail of people's challenges and the care for them along the journey.
Yeah, that's a really important point because this, this vision team is really going to be helping to shape the culture of the church going forward. And if you don't have a shepherd in the room to help shape the culture, that shepherding component of what needs to be taking place in your church culture will probably get overlooked, and that person makes sure that it won't get overlooked. All right, let's move on to our next gifting or our next role on the vision team. And that is that of a teacher. Um, explain, Nathan, what you think most people sort of think about when they think of a teacher and what we really mean and what we really think that that teacher gifting is as it relates to this vision team.
Well, it's a lot of people think they're teachers and maybe they are, uh, you know, they, they like to teach and they and they understand teaching and that's and that's good. I'm looking for for me, I'm looking for a spiritually empowered gift of teaching. When that person teaches, people's lives are being changed, they're actually taking action. God's convicting them and they're being stirred and changed. This transformational impact by the work of the Holy Spirit through the gift that God has given that person to teach God's Word. That's what I'm looking for. So I'm not saying that there aren't people who are good at teaching or are excellent, but what I want to see, uh, transformational impact through the teaching gift of that person. So that's the validation through the fruit of their ministry is being seen and experienced through the gift that God's given them. And so now when that person is coming to the team is working towards making disciples and growing people in God's Word and the teaching of God's Word, they're bringing a spiritually empowered gift. And that's a really important to me that, you know, ultimately, the Holy Spirit is the one who does it, and he's the one who gives the gifts to the body. We want to identify, you know, does that person really validate through the work of the spirit, their empowerment by God to give that gift to the body? And then then we can trust that gift to help us move people towards discipleship. And so that's really, really important.
Yeah. I mean, obviously, you know, when we are fulfilling the Great Commission, we're making new disciples and we're teaching those disciples to obey everything that Jesus commanded. So teaching is an important, integral part of who we are and what we do as a church. Um, I think in our Western culture, um, we, we tend to water down teaching more to just sort of head knowledge and biblical understanding rather than the transformational component that you're emphasizing there. I think, you know, the Near Eastern world and maybe in other countries that are a little more maybe left brained, uh, or. Right, sorry, a little more right brained, a little less left brained. You know, there's a little more nuance in the way that things are taught, because we want people to learn things, but we also want them to learn to the point that it does change their life, that it impacts their life, that they actually go do something about it. Um, in our academic world, we tend to sometimes think that, well, the best teacher is the guy who can conjugate the Hebrew and the Greek verbs so that everybody knows what those words mean in Scripture. It's not that those things aren't and can't be important, but when we're trying to disciple people to be more like Jesus, those are not necessarily always the things that are going to move the needle in the most impactful way. And so we're looking for someone who teaches who, as this vision team is building, their plan can help the visionary and the shepherd go, okay, it's great that we're caring for people. It's great that we know where we're going to go, but we need to help people grow in the areas that they need to grow, and that teacher is the one that really helps to put that plan into action.
And they're focused on how God's word is going to be transformative for people. Right? They're they're bringing that teaching gift, not teaching something they have of their own wisdom, but they they're getting their source from the Scripture, ultimately, that we think that that's where the power comes from is from God through his word to the people, through the gifts that God's given. And so this is a really important, important role in the body for sure.
Yeah, 100%. Now, uh, in terms of revisioning and refreshing a church, uh, this next role, we call it the gatherer is something that I think people naturally understand this when you're in a church planting scenario. But I think it really is important and, uh, a crucial role for a vision team and for the church to, uh, to renew or to revitalize. Why don't you talk a little bit about the gatherer?
Yeah. The gatherer is an interesting person, because oftentimes a person would see a gatherer as an evangelist, and they may be an evangelist in terms of they are leading people to Jesus. But more, more, what we're looking for this gift is that they don't just, uh, just just we we say just we're talking about leading people to Christ, but they're not someone who's necessarily communicating the gospel in a way that's that's allowing people to make a decision to follow Jesus, but they're actually people who are able to bring. People to do something and mobilize others towards stuff. And so these are people, people and they are bringing energy. They bring fun, they bring connection. I always say to all the all the mayors in the room, all all the Marthas in the room when you're, you know, trying to set up or tear down for a social function for the church, they're mad at the people who are standing around talking to somebody. But it's likely that, you know, that gatherer is not going to set up tables. They're not going to show up on time. They're probably not going to leave on time either. But they brought all the people. And why do we have the event if nobody showed up? Right. So like, we can be so focused on the tactile specifics of all the stuff that we're supposed to do or get done, but the most important thing we're doing something for outreach is that that someone actually shows up.
Well, the gatherer brings people, and not only can they bring people from the outside in, but they can also mobilize the people who are on the inside towards the goal and towards what's taking place. They bring energy, they bring relationship, and that's a really big thing. But typically with this gatherer. They are not a shepherd, and they're not going to be the Long Terme relationship person that's going to hold the glue. And sometimes we can look to that gatherer for too much relational engagement that they can't actually deliver on. They can bring stuff, they can mobilize people, they can get stuff to go. But to maintain relationships with people is really tricky for them, because they're moving on from this relationship to that relationship to this, like, oh, you're the new person. So which is which is what their strength is. And when we totally need that gifting. So sometimes the gatherer can be confused for people because they can want to think that they're the evangelist, which they may or may not be, or they're the person who's going to retain and maintain relationships, which they likely won't, or they're the person who's going to serve hard and do all these tasks, which probably isn't going to be their, their, their role. But but they are bringing people in. They're mobilizing people and they're amazing. Part of what you need for your team.
Yeah, I, I have had a friend here in the Dallas Fort Worth area for the last few years. I'm just going to name him, and then I'm going to send him this podcast episode and tell him that he needs to listen to it. His name is Ryan, and Ryan and I sat and talked about this because man, as a church planter, I would love to have him on my team. He is a gatherer. He is the kind of guy that can call 6 or 8 guys, like on a Friday night and say, do you want to fly to the Yakima Valley tomorrow and pick apples all day and then fly home in time to be at church tomorrow morning? And out of the eight guys he asks, seven would say yes, and he just has this gift of being able to call guys, uh, men, women, friends to get involved in things. And people want to be around him because he's got an energy that's infectious. He's got a passion for serving that is infectious. He started a ministry called Brothers Serving Others, and he literally looks for projects to go do. And he'll just call a bunch of guys and they'll show up with their power tools and, and their work boots and their work gloves on, and they just go and get stuff done.
And and it's not that Ryan Ryan is a get or done kind of guy, but it's not that he goes and does things on his own, it's just that he's the kind of guy that can just make some phone calls and people want to be around him, and they want to do the things that he's involved in. And so when I think about a gatherer, it is that person that, you know, it's really easy for them to get on the phone or shoot out some text messages or emails and ask people to get involved in something or to to do something or to go somewhere. And people are like, yeah, I want to go. Because just the proximity of being around this person, they're fun. They care for me, they're energizing. They've got this infectious, you know, character about their personality. And you know what you might find sometimes that person isn't necessarily the most spiritually mature person in the room. Um, but if they love Jesus and they can get people to say yes to stuff, you need somebody like that on your team. I think.
I think you're just banged on something really hard to Bart, because oftentimes when people are developing their vision team, they're thinking, okay, we need the most spiritually mature people to develop our vision team. Well, yeah. I think when you're talking about the gift of teaching and shepherding and even the visionary, I think you definitely need to have this strong, spiritual, mature. That's part of it. But when you talk about the administrator and the gatherer, I don't think the translator, I don't think you need to be having this. I mean, a person needs to love Jesus, don't mishear me. And they need to know Christ and follow Christ and love him. But have they known Jesus for 40 years? Can they quote, you know, two thirds of the Bible to you? Like, yeah.
These are not these are not people that meet these are not elder level qualified people. Right?
Right. And they shouldn't have to be. But they have a gift. They have a certain gift that needs it. So critical for the success of the church. And they're and they're committed to the leadership. They're committed to Christ. But they may not be, you know, elders as as you said, well said. Okay.
So let's transition from the gatherer who I said might not be the most spiritual person in your church, to the person on your team who might actually look the least spiritual at times. And that is the role we we've, we've used different ways to describe this person. The language that we're using right now is the translator. The translator is a part of your team. Why don't you talk a little bit about what this translator does?
The translator really is is missionary. He's the missionary, so to speak, in the group because he's able to help your your group, your team understand the the actual culture that you're trying to engage, like, not not guess and assume what the but they actually understand that culture that you're trying your, your target audience you're trying to get and they can actually help you to not only understand them, but help them understand you. And so this translator is really, really critical because you can be doing all kinds of amazing things with excellence, with great planning and good teamwork, but it's not actually communicating to the people you're targeting. So you're doing this amazing outreach and you're doing all kinds of incredible things, but nobody is coming and nobody cares because, yeah, so so the translator is actually able to really help you break down and understand the culture of the people you're trying to your target that you're trying to get after. And then it can actually help that. A target also understand you. So you really need this person to give you insights to the language you're using, the activities you're taking on, the way that you present yourself, and the way that you engage the cultural nuances of actually interacting and have an impact, real impact with the people that you're targeting. This this person is really critical.
In our last episode together, Nathan, we talked about, you know, the the the leader, the pastor of the church, the leader in some ways, being like the lead missionary in the community, you know, the the local church today is is no longer the home team. We're the visiting team. And we need to treat our ministry. If we're going to make an impact on our community, we have to treat it as if we are sort of in a foreign land or on foreign soil. And big part of that is knowing and understanding the culture that God has placed us in, that he's calling us to reach. And so that translator on your team, like, I mean, you wouldn't get on a plane and go to to Cambodia or to Brazil or to one of the other many places that you've gone on mission trips without having somebody on your team who helps you navigate the culture, the cultural nuances, the language nuances. And so, you know, the translator on my team says to me, Pastor Bart, when you say this thing, uh, this is what the people in the community are actually interpreting that. Exactly. Um, when they say this thing and do this thing, you think it means this, but actually this is what it actually means, right? And this person on your team, like I said, I don't want to say that they're not.
Maybe they shouldn't be an ungodly person, but some of the more conservative people in your church might think that they are less godly because, well, they probably watch movies that nobody else watches, and they probably listen to some music that nobody else listens to, and they're willing to go to events and activities in the community that maybe nobody else does, because they're probably really tightly in tune with pop culture and the things that are going on in the world. They just they understand it better. And, you know, again, we're not saying that you need to bring pagans onto your vision team. That's not at all what we're saying. These people need to know Jesus, love Jesus, be committed to Jesus, be committed to your church. And there does need to be a certain level of spiritual maturity in in their own personal walk with Jesus. But you also need to be able to have grace on that team, to know not everybody is going to be at the same level from a spiritual maturity standpoint, and we're not talking about elder qualified people to be on this vision team. So that's what I got to say about the translator. Anything else that you want to add to that?
Yeah, I think we have to be very careful of being in our holy huddle thinking that, you know, we're doing good things for the right reasons. It's going to be effective. We have to be relevant to the people we're trying to engage. We have to do a missiological work to understand those people and to engage them properly. And we need the right kinds of people talking to us and helping us understand not just so we can understand them, but we they can understand us. And so that translator, that missiological component to what you're thinking about doing really, really, really, really important for you to have a rounded engagement to be effective in your ministry.
All right. We're going to land the plane on this particular episode of the Revitalized My Church podcast. And, uh, we have talked today about the importance of a vision team and the unique gifting that we would like to see on that revitalization team. Um, if you'd like to, uh, download a copy of the profile that we've written for each of these team members, you can click over to revitalize my Dot church. Uh, pull up this episode and there will be a PDF that you can download that's in the show notes. Um, if you're listening to this podcast, maybe it's the first time you've checked it out first or second time. If you haven't subscribed yet, make sure that you subscribe wherever you listen to podcasts. And we also have an email list, um, that you can sign up for on our website, uh, which will give us the opportunity to share with you new resources and new things that we're creating that we hope will help you revitalize your church. If that's something that is near and dear to your heart. Nathan, thanks so much for hanging out with me today.
Great to be with you, Bart.
